The Gaming Den

I never realized that Enervation had SR, I thought it had none. I know it has no save. I dunno, I'm probably alright with SR still being there, but I should make it an (ex).

I made you a table.

Level	Base Attack Bonus	Fortitude Save	Reflex Save	Will Save	Special:
01	+1	+2	+0	+2	Deadly Focus, Bloody Strike, Chillling Strike, Unholy Strike, Forceful Deflection, Rune Blade
02	+2	+3	+0	+3	Minion, Deathcharger, Improved Intimidate
03	+3	+3	+1	+3	Blood Presence, Freezing Presence, Unholy Presence
04	+4	+4	+1	+4	Death and Decay, Greater Rune Blade
05	+5	+4	+1	+4	Army of the Dead, Anti-Magic Shell, Improved Intimidate

lols. Thanks. (:

Ok, for the Unholy Strike, should the Enervation allow for Spell Resistance, or not? The range is a lot shorter, and Enervation is an effective Debuff, for sure, but it's not going to have such a large effect that a character is neccessarily shut down; is it?

I rather like the way the three strikes are phrased with your most recent edit, with the exception of Chilling Strike/Cold Breath. That uses an immediate action to activate an ability which costs an attack action. This means that there may be two different durations in the effect, the time in which you can make Chilling Breaths and the duration of the Slow. I don't think you intended to let people rapid-fire this, so it should probably be reworded.

The way I was looking at it before, Unholy Strike was something you'd want to hit appropriate enemies with more than once before you engaged. Do you intend for the negative levels to stack with multiple applications, and for the Death Knight to see incentive to layer it on a target before doing something else? If so, I think I'd prefer an attack action deathbolt that dealt a single negative level and required an attack roll, but could be fired multiple times in one round. If not, I like the fact that the current version doesn't need an attack roll or spell resistance check. It feels like an option I'd consider using, but not feel drawn to over everything else. It doesn't hog screen time either (I felt the last version encouraged me to stagnate into doing the same thing every other round for some combats).

If the duration referenced for Unholy Strike means that the negative levels you gave disappear after a couple of rounds, do casters get the spells they lost back?

Anti-Magic Shell could use clarification as to whether you are protected from spells cast directly on you from outside the field.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Some grammar quibbles.

The table I made still references Chilling Strike instead of Cold Breath.

Each of the presences are good for different things. Blood is good for in-between fights, so you'll want to end every fight with Blood Presence to gain the fast healing. Undeath and Chilling Presense are good for tanking or whatever, but each is good for different types of tanking. Undeath is good versus smart mages that would cast Save or Dies or against Rogues, since you now remove their damage. Chilling Presense is good versus most melee fights for the DR, and the Spell Resistance is good to reduce the effectiveness of an enemy blaster mage.

You probably want to change it to "Chilling Presence"

Prerequisites
Special: Must have died and been ressurected or killed a defenseless creature for no reason other than you wanted to kill them.

I think it's "resurrected"

Cold Breath(Su): Death Knights have frozen souls. When their mouths open, cold mist falls from their lips. When they roar in battle, they freeze their foes.

As an immediate action a Death Knight may expend their Deadly Focus breath freezing cold air at their enemies. As an Attack Action, the Death Knight can deal 1d6 of Cold damage per Character Levels to a creature within Close Range, the target is also Slowed, as per the Slow spell. This ability allows no saving throw.

"may expend their Deadly Focus to breathe freezing cold air "

Forceful Deflection (Ex): Death Knights are filled with unholy potence and strength. They hardly need a sheild, as they can simply swat aside enemy attacks with their own weapons.

A Death Knight may use their strength modifier, and weapon enchancement bonus, as an enchancement bonus to their sheild armour class. This ability is lost if the Death Knight equips a sheild.

I think it's "shield "

And thanks for making this, I'm definitely enjoying playing Xophtial so far. Still at first level as a Death Knight, but I'm trying to write up a special type of incorporeal undead minion based on something I saw in a Rokugan splatbook. Aiming for CR 5 so I can use it next level.

Well, the last version of Chilling Strike was an AoE burst that went off when you made melee attacks.

Which was a bit overpowered, and didn't do what the actual DK ability in WoW does (it's a ranged attack, that deals cold damage, and slows the target); so I changed the ability to reflect that.

Now, there's more incentive to fire off your chilling blasts at more opponents, since you'll want the Slow debuff to be spread out; as well, the character has a ranged attack option that they can use.

An attack action deathbolt that deals 1 neg level is possible; I'll have to put a cap on both so that they're limited to Iterative BaB-derived attacks only.

I should put in a duration of 1 minute for negative levels, and the slowing effect.

Hmm.... I'm pretty sure that an AMF stops any spell that enters it, or passes through it. You could walk though a EBT, or stand your ground when the target of Conjurations or Evocations, and can walk through Abjurations.

On the spelling errors... yeah, I make them. Usually they're the same ones over, and over again.

I'm glad you like this, and that it's been working out for you.

How does this sound for Cold Breath?

"As an immediate action a Death Knight may expend their Deadly Focus to temporarily gain the ability to breathe freezing cold air at their enemies. This allows the Death Knight to deal 1d6 of Cold damage per Character Level to a creature within Close Range using an Attack Action. The target is also Slowed, as per the Slow spell for one minute. This ability allows no saving throw (and the Slow effect allows no Spell Resistance).

The ability to use Cold Breath lasts for one round per Class level. After this point, the Death Knight must expend their Deadly Focus again if they wish to regain it (Note that the Death Knight does have the option to expend their Deadly focus to renew the effect before the it wears off.)."

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Anti-Magic Shell stipulates that the Death Knight creates an "Anti-Magic Field that does not affect themselves or their equipment". This could be argued to mean that the Death Knight can be affected with some targeted spells, so I figure it would eliminate arguments to make a note that this is not the case.

Ah. I see what you mean about the AMF. What I'm going for is more "AMF on everyone else's effects and gear, I, and my gear are immune to it's effects".

In that case, how about this?

"A Death Knight can expend their Deadly Focus to create a special Anti-Magic Field that extends in a 5-foot radius out from them. This protects the Death Knight (Including worn/carried items) from magic and negates nearby magical effects/items, but does not affect the Death Knight's own abilities and items or beneficial magic used on the Death Knight before the Anti-Magic Shell was activated.

The Anti-Magic Shell lasts for one round per class level."

Wrote up a tentative Unholy Bolts ability partially based on my rewrite of Cold Breath above.

Unholy Bolts (Su): Death Knights are fueled by raw entropy as much as they are powered by anything else. While not undead, they can channel the Negative Energy Plane in a terrible manner.

As an immediate action, a Death Knight may expend their Deadly Focus to temporarily gain the ability to throw crackling green-and-black blasts of negative energy. This allows the Death Knight make a ranged touch attack out to Medium Range using an Attack Action. The target receives a negative level if struck. These negative levels stack, but wear off after 1 minute (note that any spell slots depleted by the negative levels do not come back). If the target struck is immune to negative energy, nothing happens. If the target is healed by negative energy, it receives 5 temporary hit points instead. These temporary hit points stack, but wear off after one minute.

The ability to use Unholy Bolts lasts for one round per Class level. After this point, the Death Knight must expend their Deadly Focus again if they wish to regain it (Note that the Death Knight does have the option to expend their Deadly focus to renew the effect before it wears off.).

Why not make the cold breath an actual breath weapon, covering an area and allowing Fortitude half?

Judging__Eagle wrote:Well, the last version of Chilling Strike was an AoE burst that went off when you made melee attacks.

Which was a bit overpowered, and didn't do what the actual DK ability in WoW does (it's a ranged attack, that deals cold damage, and slows the target); so I changed the ability to reflect that.

Now, there's more incentive to fire off your chilling blasts at more opponents, since you'll want the Slow debuff to be spread out; as well, the character has a ranged attack option that they can use.

If Cold Breath covered an area, you wouldn't be as incentivized to target multiple people with it in order to slow them.

Avoraciopoctules wrote: If Cold Breath covered an area, you wouldn't be as incentivized to target multiple people with it in order to slow them.

Makes sense. Any news on how balanced the unavoidability is?

I haven't used Cold Breath in play yet, but I have some concerns about automatically dealing 1d6 per level with an attack action + an unavoidable status effect. If it seems that the damage is really significant in play, I'll recommend halving that to 1d6 per 2 levels.

Why not just make it Fortitude half? Or an attack roll?

A ranged touch attack within Short Range feels like it would suit if there isn't a specific reason for Cold Breath to auto-hit. It would make the ability more similar to my Unholy Bolts write-up, which could be a good thing for prospective players trying to keep all their abilities straight.

Avoraciopoctules wrote:I haven't used Cold Breath in play yet, but I have some concerns about automatically dealing 1d6 per level with an attack action + an unavoidable status effect. If it seems that the damage is really significant in play, I'll recommend halving that to 1d6 per 2 levels.

Hmm... Let's make a Low level Death Knight; and see how they fare against equal CR opponents?

5 Levels of Knight, Fighter, Samurai, or Barbarian are all equal lead-ins.

Let's say Knight. It's 'apporpriate', and more importantly, can tell a good story about some good dude, who gets gacked, then comes back, but isn't sure if he's going to be good or evil anymore.

Knight 5/Az. Death Knight 1

That' 5d12 + 1d12
BaB: +6/+1
Will and Fort at +4 + 1 ('sensible' STs here, a +2 to something that already had a +2 ever before, is only a +1)
Ref at +2 + 0 (yeah, bad Ref Saves.

Designate Opponent: +5d6 to melee attacks, when it triggers
Damage Reduction: 2/-
Energy Resistance: [1 Element, Swift Action to activate/change] : 5 + Sheild Bonus
Speak With Animals, +5 to Ride/Handle Animal Checks, no max on tricks taught, and no penalty getting an animal to perfrom a trick it doesn't know.
Immunity to Fear: Fight Dwagons nao
Knightly Spirit: Move Action to heal any Attribute Damage or Drain that the Knight have Suffered.
Command: Has a Pet or Cohort (auto-qualify for DK, your pet will be more powerful, or you can just use Phantom Steed, and have a cohort).

DK 1 give:
Deadly Focus,
Bloody Strike,
Chillling Breath,
Unholy Bolts,
Forceful Deflection, Str to AC when using 2 weapons, or a 2-handed weapon
Rune Blade get to make magic swords (I'm changing this ability btw; weapons is one ability; making any type of permanent magic item should be the level 9 character power.

So; at level 6; they can:
-get to reroll dice; like a Fighter's Focus
-expend focus, make your weapons wounding; deal 1 str damage as well (and +1 str damage per DK level)
-Cold damage, ranged touch attack; 6d6, takes an attack action; note: this is merely a ranged option; the Knight can already do a bunch of damage via designate opponent; and from farther away, by using a bow or something.
-... Unholy Bolts got fubared at some point. I need to fix it. It should be an "Enervation"-like attack; 1d4 Neg levels, ranged touch; no save, no SR
-Forceful Deflection: str to AC; when not using a sheild. Get a buckler, the sheild bonus can still add to your Energy resistance.
-carry up to two +3 weapons (above Wish Econ access, which is awesome)

A level 6 They are probably riding a...

Otyugh
Mimic
Rust Monster (wear leather? or non-tarnishable armour)
literally dozens, and dozens of animals

An advanced large animated object

Dragons are too small

An advanced Thoqqua, is the only viable elemental at that point

ankheg
blink dog
giant eagle
Griffon
hippogriff
Hydra (5-headed)
Kreshnar (advanced)
Giant Owl (adv)
Pegasus (adv)
Sea Cat
Unicorn
Worg

A gelatinous Cube

A Phantom Fungus... hmmm...

Skeleton Chimera
Zombie Wyvrn (fucking awesome pet btw)

Advanmced Howler

Finally, Vermin

there are large Scorpions, Centipeds, Spiders; wasps, praying mantis and stag beetles that a PC character Knight could possibly ride.


The typical 6th level character who was a Knight; then went for Death Knight is anything but 'typical'. There's a lot of options to pick from at level 5 in terms of mounts. Riding a spider sounds pretty cool imo; and fits in with the 'dark' feel of that type of character.

In any case, I've broken down what abilities that character will have; does anyone here have an example DK idea? We might as well SAME game test this class.

Wow this is really good. I'll try to play one of these soon. Did you ever get unholy strike determined? Is J.E. even still posting?

I'm still here... I just haven't looked at this. It was a side-project at best, I'm glad people got some use out of it; and it allowed me to re-examine the "multiple modes" character concept that I once used for the Aquan Champ/Knight.

Gotta love some thread necro.

Judging Eagle wrote:Death Knights are fueled by raw entropy as much as they are powered by anything else.

WTF does this even mean? Isn't anything that moves around, has a metabolism, or throws a fireball "fueled by raw entropy"?

Well, yes, that's the whole point, DKs are badass and ridiculous i their "Eeeevil", saying stuff like "Suffer well" and "You lost me at, 'hello'" to each other.

They murderize a horse they stole, then ride it, like some sort of inversion of a Paladin's mount.

Their "powers" are... blood, death and cold..... for no real reason, other than those words tend to be thought of as 'bad', not for any sort of logical reason, like they are blood-drinking, ice-blooded, vampire-people; or you know, almost any reason.

They're just card-carrying evil, except that someone wrote on ice, death and blood on the card with an attempt to make the lettering scary when they vandalized their business card with ballpoint pen.

Saying that they are fueled by "raw entropy" is just a throwaway line, I could use Negative Energy or Void Mana, and people would get the same impression, they use "eeeevil" energy. Which, tbh, is sort of the "flavour" people want when playing something called a "Death Knight".